Curse

dont feel no pain · Nov 14, 2007, 09:04 AM // 09:04

I also agree magebane shot is amazing.... use while you can i say

Linteo · Nov 14, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

barrage barrage, now i am happy

and that pet corpse, heh, atleast they didnt change that player or hench cant leave a corpse, those necrominionmasters can still make his undead army from his own team!

D

ReiNaruto · Nov 14, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Why dont make pets dont leave a corpse in PvP and leave the in peace on PvE?

Is not the first thing that works different between the two worlds, look at some heroes IA.

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by kooomar

1) I literally laugh at every single person says that a pet not leaving a corpse is unrealistic
"Oh man, my trained super crap died while attacking a giant undead beast in a place that has breathing walls, thats so unrealistic that theres no corpse to make an animated minion from"

I'm not getting back into this, I just want to point out that you misunderstand the claim of 'unrealism.' It has nothing to do with a comparison to real-life, it has to do with a comparison to in-game mechanics. Animals leave exploitable corpses. Yet, for some reason, now that same animal, when charmed, doesn't. That is what's unrealistic.

Besides, your example doesn't really hold together, either. There are plenty of monsters out there, who leave exploitable corpses, that are smaller than the average ranger pet. Size has nothing to do with anything.

Surena · Nov 14, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Soul Reaping is still the best energy management in PvE.

True.

And Minionmasters suck, they're a wasted slot, inefficient and only giving you the illusion of actually contributing something. A useless wall of bones while you could actually kill much faster with a better character.

I don't hear my Necro complaining.

Now while the pet corpse thing seems a bit arkward, the spirit abuse finally finds its justified end.

Now we need to nerf RaO, Deadly Arts and the Tree.

CHunterX · Nov 14, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Based on game lore, the only things that don't leave exploitable corpses are undead and spirits (EDIT: and golems). Are pets now considered either?

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Based on game lore, the only things that don't leave exploitable corpses are undead and spirits. Are pets now considered either?

You're forgetting things like golems, elementals, graven monoliths, etc. But yeah, true that.

Glider of chaos · Nov 14, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

well... What do I have to say?
I run assassin as my primary and my assumptions are based on resent sin nerf. On the other hand I'll try to avoid typical "give me my HoTO back!" stuff. Instead I'll try to view this situation as a whole.

It's actually not the nerf itself that worries me the most but the style of Izzy's balancing...
He claims that he wants more diversity in a game. To achieve this he takes the most popular stuff and hits it HARD. The problem is that with this sin nerf no buffs were introduced to promote alternative builds to play with. Not to mention that some nerfed skills were not broken by any means (it's not like I point at HoTO

). This general trend of "lets kill the most popular thing and look if players will use more builds now" is very worrying IMO. I can understand it when some builds are broken... but when it happens to builds that are not all that great comparing to other professions it's kinda sad.

Basically this update narrows the assassins "skills of choice" list once again. Now we're pretty much stuck with 3 or 4 builds I think - Deadly arts caster, Moebius-Death blossom spam and Aura of Displacement gank. There are unblockable builds with Shattering Assault (those are sub-par in terms of damage I think) and some Way of the Master builds as well (way fragile in the means of being totally enchantment-dependent)

Nothing is done to promote assassins to high-level pvp and they still mostly belong to RA/TA/AB where they take advantage of not-so-good players who have less HP and like to go solo. Few nerfs may change this as well. Nerf Deadly Paradox again, add healthy recharge to Way of the Master and Death Blossom, increase Shattering Assault cost - and - yay, here we go! Assassins are not a threat anymore!

/sigh

PS Sorry, I tried to keep it civil and thoughtful but I couldn't resist an urge to add a little rant in the very end %)

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

And Minionmasters suck, they're a wasted slot, inefficient and only giving you the illusion of actually contributing something. A useless wall of bones while you could actually kill much faster with a better character.

Pretty bland statement, minion master do have their uses, they're overrated that's all. Who says the wall of bones can't kill?

besides that, 1 word: [wiki]barbs[/wiki]

Koyasha Li · Nov 14, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

For b/ps that do the Tombs in hard mode, I can understand. If you're in a fast group, you get through with that in 30 minutes. Thus greens, ectos, gold/grape drops, plus different tome drops for a 30 minute run? Rock on.

Ah well, balanced groups are really not that bad. I made it through Tombs before with them a couple of times. This was in normal mode a while back - I haven't tried it in hard mode yet. I'm sure it could be done, though. If people want to farm it badly enough, they'll find a way.

CHunterX · Nov 14, 2007, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Pretty bland statement, minion master do have their uses, they're overrated that's all. Who says the wall of bones can't kill?

Especially when an MM runs Order of Undeath. Damage bonus can get into the 300+ per cast of it, regardless of minion type. Not to mention TEN MEAT SHIELDS YOUR MONK DOESN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Especially when an MM runs Order of Undeath. Damage bonus can get into the 300+ per cast of it, regardless of minion type. Not to mention TEN MEAT SHIELDS YOUR MONK DOESN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

Oh yeah, exactly. They make excellent meat shields. When playing my monk with an MM on the team, I noticed quite a few battles where not a single party member took any damage at all thanks to the meat shields.

When I MM, I always run OoU along with that second necro with Barbs and MoP... talk about laying waste to everything. Sorry, but SS just can't compare to that kind of WMD.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

A single well-setup Paragon > walls of minions.

In case you didn't realize, those walls of minions are coming from a single, well-setup Necro. More targets for the enemy + Much more damage > Reduced damage to the party members. But hey, why not have the best of both worlds and carry both, like me?

ManMadeGod · Nov 14, 2007, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

bungusmaximus, Magebane does look strong.
But it's weird. It's an elite...so it really should be better than something like Power Lock as a whole.
It has flight time and blind to deal with too. I don't know.

You can spam Magebane (blindly) now, even you fail, you deal some dmg and it's not blockable now!
And it only costs you 2~3 energy.

dont feel no pain · Nov 14, 2007, 09:35 AM // 09:35

magebane + serpents qiickness ftw ^^, you can completely shutdown an caster (within reason)

Surena · Nov 14, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Especially when an MM runs Order of Undeath. Damage bonus can get into the 300+ per cast of it, regardless of minion type. Not to mention TEN MEAT SHIELDS YOUR MONK DOESN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

Why do you need meat shields when you have "Save Yourselves" and "TNTF" (plus also were foes don't leave corpses)? PvE skils are there for a reason.

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Why do you need meat shields when you have "Save Yourselves" and "TNTF" (plus also were foes don't leave corpses)? PvE skils are there for a reason.

Except that I don't use lolzPvE skills, but that's more my own problem. I'm not going to blame people for using the tools available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

A single well-setup Paragon > walls of minions.

Fair enough, completely PWNED Oolas dungeon with that. Golems are sissies, "Stand Your Ground!" rocks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyasha Li

I haven't tried it in hard mode yet. I'm sure it could be done, though. If people want to farm it badly enough, they'll find a way.

1 SS/MoP necro with enfeebling blood, SyG paragon with gfte, 3 b/p rangers, 2 of sab's N/Rt, 1 mm, blows away normal B/P any day when played right.

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Why do you need meat shields when you have "Save Yourselves" and "TNTF" (plus also were foes don't leave corpses)? PvE skils are there for a reason.

Because you don't always have a spare human Paragon player sitting around. Heroes MM just fine without any PvE skills.

Surena · Nov 14, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Except that I don't use lolzPvE skills, but that's more my own problem. I'm not going to blame people for using the tools available.

So bringing a MM is nobler than using overpowered PvE skills? Chivalry doesn't belong here. That's not an argument speaking for them. I'm not putting words in your mouth but considering what we have available you'd think twice to consider MMs as a valid and important template in nowadays PvE.

Moloch Vein · Nov 14, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Soul Reaping is still the best energy management in PvE.

As well it should be. A class with no other function of their primary attribute than providing energy, with slow spells that cost a fortune, limited energy pool and almost no skills in their primary attribute should have the best energy management in the game.

The timer was added to stop the spiritway "exploit". The spiritway "exploit". is. removed.

A comparison: The energy management function of critical strikes is tied to the assassin hitting something. The energy management of a necromancer is tied to things dying. What is more likely?

Do assassins usually run out of energy? How about paragons, do they frequently get e-denied?

What amazes me the most is how people still clamor for more nerfs to the most nerfed primary in Guild Wars.

RhanoctJocosa · Nov 14, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Agreed. Now we just need a slight buff to Energy Storage, as it is beginning to look like the weakest Primary.

I'd say it's strength.